Author Topic: Vancouver Olympics  (Read 1183 times)

Offline Cannon

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« Reply #15 on: 21 February 2010, 05:37:13 PM »
We had this same damn argument during the Summer Olympics. You basing medals on per captia.... If that's how it worked than China and India should be the worlds most athletic nations. I'm sorry Prax, that isn't how it works. I am sick and tired of you always bashing the US in the Olympics. Give some credit where credit is due! For you to always say this is beyond me, I understand you have pride for your country and I applaud that, but for Christ sake, be a gracious loser.

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Offline RyPrax

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« Reply #16 on: 21 February 2010, 07:15:02 PM »
Quote from: Cannon;38388
We had this same damn argument during the Summer Olympics. You basing medals on per captia.... If that's how it worked than China and India should be the worlds most athletic nations. I'm sorry Prax, that isn't how it works. I am sick and tired of you always bashing the US in the Olympics. Give some credit where credit is due! For you to always say this is beyond me, I understand you have pride for your country and I applaud that, but for Christ sake, be a gracious loser.


You've provided absolutely no logical reasoning why a per capita medal count is a bad way of judging countries in their victories. Sure, there are other factors such as wealth and government intervention, but it makes sense. Canada has 30 million people and based on that number, they're successful in sporting events. There are successful Canadians in every major sport (including players who have dominated their sports like Steve Nash and Larry Walker), Canada consistently wins Olympic medals in most major categories at both the Winter and Summer Olympics, yet, just because we're not number one, Canadian athletes are failures?

How exactly is Canada a loser at these games? They have 2 less gold medals than the US, they're 4th in medal standings with 8 total medals with many more to come.

I think it's the other way around, Americans are clearly smug winners who feel the need to bash anyone who doesn't win as many medals as they do. I'm sick and tired of that, tbh, and I won't stop defending my country from these stupid accusations.


Think I'll have a wank over these tomorrow.

Offline Cannon

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« Reply #17 on: 21 February 2010, 10:38:22 PM »
Prax, your reasoning makes zero since. Your logic is simply, "The more people a country has the more medals they should win." Now, like I said this would mean China and India run away with everything. Now you turn it around and say that America is full of smug winners etc etc etc and that Canada should be praised because they have so few people yet wins so many medals. That's not how it works..... I don't turn on the nightly sports report and see people dividing medals by population.

So if were using your mathematically equation this means Austria who is currently tied with Canada in the medal count is the best nation in the Olympics. They have a little over 8 million people yet they have 8 medals. So that's about one medal for every 1 million people! So in essence along with your theory that they are the GREATEST NATION EVER~!~! ZOMG!

Now, lets get back to reality. We both know Austria isn't the best nation in the Olympics. I don't know who is, winning a medal does have lots of variables that go along with it and we both know this. Yet you want to justify Canada not being in first on some kind of bullshit and then you want to call the USA smug winners? Prax, seriously brother.... Your better than that and with what  your saying comes off as some anti-American rhetoric.

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Offline narcolepsy

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« Reply #18 on: 22 February 2010, 02:36:59 AM »
Brodeur has seriously had a bad last month or so, thats why giving up 4 goals so far isnt that surprising to me...maybe age is finally catching up to him?

Just going to put up some funny tweets ive seen so far...

RT @sportsguy33 Whatever happens,  this is the most exciting moment in MSNBC history, edging out that time  Olbermann got mad about something.

RT NYRangersRZ  CHRIS DRURY: Canada should  forfeit.

Offline Mini Kong

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« Reply #19 on: 22 February 2010, 03:33:24 AM »
How about that hockey game? I didn't catch it until the 2nd period. The last 3 minutes of the game were extremely insane. Props to Miller tonight. Dude made ALOT of good saves, more so in the last 3 minutes when the score was 3 - 4.
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Offline Cannon

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« Reply #20 on: 22 February 2010, 03:51:18 AM »
Quote from: Mini Kong;38425
How about that hockey game? I didn't catch it until the 2nd period. The last 3 minutes of the game were extremely insane. Props to Miller tonight. Dude made ALOT of good saves, more so in the last 3 minutes when the score was 3 - 4.


Yea, Canada is still better.... We got lucky. ALL HAIL CANADA! ALL HAIL CANADA!

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Offline RyPrax

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« Reply #21 on: 22 February 2010, 04:28:46 AM »
Quote from: Cannon;38420
Prax, your reasoning makes zero since. Your logic is simply, "The more people a country has the more medals they should win." Now, like I said this would mean China and India run away with everything. Now you turn it around and say that America is full of smug winners etc etc etc and that Canada should be praised because they have so few people yet wins so many medals. That's not how it works..... I don't turn on the nightly sports report and see people dividing medals by population.

So if were using your mathematically equation this means Austria who is currently tied with Canada in the medal count is the best nation in the Olympics. They have a little over 8 million people yet they have 8 medals. So that's about one medal for every 1 million people! So in essence along with your theory that they are the GREATEST NATION EVER~!~! ZOMG!

Now, lets get back to reality. We both know Austria isn't the best nation in the Olympics. I don't know who is, winning a medal does have lots of variables that go along with it and we both know this. Yet you want to justify Canada not being in first on some kind of bullshit and then you want to call the USA smug winners? Prax, seriously brother.... Your better than that and with what  your saying comes off as some anti-American rhetoric.


Maybe it is a little anti-american. One thing I've noticed from Americans at these games and prior games is that they don't necessarily take pride in winning, they take pride in beating others. And that's exactly what's happening here. You'd have to be blind to ignore the comment that Narc posted about americans "renting the podium" from Canadians during the games.

Is there a lot of hype around Canada and its potential to win a lot of medals this year? Yes. But does that make them losers if they're not number one in the medal standings? By no means!

And you're proving my point about the per-capita agument by pointing out Austria. They are a great winter olympics nation. They're a northern nation in the alps that's great at skiing and luge and those kinds of sports, and that takes pride in winning medals based on their small population. It would be unreasonable to ask much more of them than what they're accomplishing now. By the same token, Canada's great at winter sports and wins a lot of medals themselves. They certainly have more facilities than a lot of other nations and more is expected out of them, but how many people out of 30 million can you really expect to dominate a sport?

I don't think you really get it. It's not "the more people your country has the more medals they should win". Not at all. The point is that if a small country wins a lot of medals, then its more impressive than a big country winning the same amount or a few more. Why does Canada have to be number one in the standings to have a successful Olympics? And why does the US having 24 medals and Canada having 9 mean that the US is better than them?

And by the way, just because they don't say something on the news doesn't mean it's not true. You need to watch something other than Fox news once in a whil.


Think I'll have a wank over these tomorrow.

Offline chappers

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« Reply #22 on: 22 February 2010, 08:00:41 PM »
I think a lot of variables can be taken into account for how good a country is, at the end of the day it's the Olympics, it's down to how much the competitors can deal with pressure. Facilities, size of country, economy, training and weather all make an impact on how good a country is going into the competition, however, anyone can win at the Olympics.

Offline narcolepsy

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« Reply #23 on: 22 February 2010, 09:10:59 PM »
Quote from: Hollywood Prax;38431
One thing I've noticed from Americans at these games and prior games is that they don't necessarily take pride in winning, they take pride in beating others. And that's exactly what's happening here. You'd have to be blind to ignore the comment that Narc posted about americans "renting the podium" from Canadians during the games.

After reading this article No Canada?   - CNBC , I think the reason the U.S. Olympian made this statement was because Canada hindered all the training opportunities for their own Olympians and others around the country.  Along with some bad luck with all the 4th and 5th place finishes, it seems as though many Canadians weren't thrilled with having to disrupt their typical training regimens that included working out with their friends that happen to be the best from other countries.

As for your point about population being a key determinant in sitting a top the medal count, although we have over 300,000,000 citizens, very few actually live in areas that promote and allow for these winter sports.  Due to Canada's location, most of their national past times occur during the cold months whereas an overwhelming amount of Americans focus on warm weather sports.  A large number of our medalists come from Vermont, Minnesota, Michigan, Washington, etc with the occasional outlier from below the Mason-Dixon line.  I wouldn't be surprised if the total population of these states aren't much higher than the 30,000,000 Canadians.  Most of our success is from when breakout stars arise in each of these sports, the U.S.O.C. basically tells them all to move to their headquarters in Colorado for high quality training.  In my opinion, the Scandinavian countries should always be dominating the outdoor events at the Olympics because they have the perfect region to train just like the African nations dominate on the track in the Summer.

Offline RyPrax

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« Reply #24 on: 23 February 2010, 01:16:09 AM »
For crying out loud, the point wasn't even that higher population should equal more medals, it's that each medal a smaller country games is more impressive than one that has a bigger population. Simply by the law of averages, a country with 10x the population of another has to have more Olympic-level athletes than the smaller countries. As it has been stated here, the number of those athletes that get to share their gift and compete in their sports varies based on the wealth of their country, where it's located, etc. All I'm saying is that Canada's competitiveness at these Olympics has been impressive and far from a failure.

Forget what the Wall Street Journal projected Canada to get in terms of medals, or what the Own the Podium program says, that's all arbitrary. What I see is impressive results. 4 gold medals, 4 silvers and a bronze. 16 4th and 5th place finishes (more after today, quoted from the very article you posted), and a bunch more top 10 finishes. And why is 4th place all that much worse than 2nd or 3rd? You don't get a medal in 4th place but 2nd and 3rd place medals are basically being rewarded for losing, or coming close to winning, if you will.

For me, as a Canadian, to see Canada's results in Cross Country skiing, where it had at least 5 top 10 finishes, that's just as impressive as winning a medal. Before these games, Canada never even came close in Cross country (i'm talking like 30th place as the previous best result), and now they're on the cusp of being a competitor. Near medal finishes in speed skating, skiing, cross, luge, etc. Canada's had a damn fine showing at these games, and i don't want to take anything away from the Americans nor the Germans, but for me, these games so far have been far from a failure in terms of Canadian performance.


Think I'll have a wank over these tomorrow.

Offline Cannon

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« Reply #25 on: 23 February 2010, 01:39:18 AM »
I would write some huge retort to your last 2 posts Prax.... But, your exhausting and will keep trying to push that your opinion is superior to everyone else in this thread.

With that out of the way what Narco said is very true. There are only a handful of states that produce winter Olympians. The vast majority of the country doesn't have many places where one could hone there curling skills (closet curling club to me is 4.5 hrs away.) Now closest ski resort? That's 4 hrs away also and is only open from middle December til March. If I wanted to be a pro skier or snowboarder my chances are slim. Point is this, Canadians have a lot more of an opportunity to peruse things like this. Argue this point too, but I will close on this. The USA has 300,000 registered hockey players with US Hockey.... Now our population is roughly 300,000,000. Now that's a small percentage for players to population and with such a small pool USA shouldn't be that good at hockey..... Yet last night we beat the people who invented the sport and are synonymous with the word hockey.

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Offline RyPrax

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« Reply #26 on: 23 February 2010, 01:56:22 AM »
Quote from: Cannon;38470
I would write some huge retort to your last 2 posts Prax.... But, your exhausting and will keep trying to push that your opinion is superior to everyone else in this thread.

With that out of the way what Narco said is very true. There are only a handful of states that produce winter Olympians. The vast majority of the country doesn't have many places where one could hone there curling skills (closet curling club to me is 4.5 hrs away.) Now closest ski resort? That's 4 hrs away also and is only open from middle December til March. If I wanted to be a pro skier or snowboarder my chances are slim. Point is this, Canadians have a lot more of an opportunity to peruse things like this. Argue this point too, but I will close on this. The USA has 300,000 registered hockey players with US Hockey.... Now our population is roughly 300,000,000. Now that's a small percentage for players to population and with such a small pool USA shouldn't be that good at hockey..... Yet last night we beat the people who invented the sport and are synonymous with the word hockey.


Canadians have to make just as much of a sacrifice to make it to the Olympic level as anyone else in the world. There have been many stories at these games of Canadian athletes having to move their entire families to different provinces so they could be closer to better facilities and better training. So if you really care about the sport and about winning, you'd travel the 4.5 hours to have the opportunity to compete. All it takes is seeing an athlete that you connect with on TV and doing the sport once to realize you love it and want to continue doing it.

As for hockey, I'll give you that one. But even in Canada it's an extremely expensive and taxing sport to play at a higher level. Hockey sticks alone cost hundreds of dollars, and they break easily. Then you have skates, uniforms, equipment, not to mention it's the sport that probably requires the most amount of travel. It's why Alex Bilodeau, Canada's first gold medalist at these games, stopped playing hockey in favor of downhill skiing.

There's no doubt that Canadian hockey players should be overall better than US hockey players, but we're talking about an elite level here, the top 20 players from one country with 400K registered hockey players to one with more people and the same amount of registered hockey players is about even. In terms of the game itself last night, it was a combination of incredible goaltending on one side, bad goaltending on the other, and the fact that the US simply wanted it more. But I wouldn't rate an entire country's hockey program based on one game.

Either way hockey's a whole other monster to tackle, I didn't even predict Canada to win a medal originally (and I predicted the US to win bronze).

And Cannon, you're doing to me what you're claiming I'm doing to do. I don't think my opinion is superior to anyone else's... even if I argue my point with more... conviction, I guess... but when you come here and tell me that you don't want to argue with me because I make myself sound superior, apparently, that doesn't make you much better. It's like you're saying that you know you're argument is better but that you simply don't want to argue it anymore...


Think I'll have a wank over these tomorrow.

Offline Leonardo Lunchbox

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« Reply #27 on: 23 February 2010, 05:27:04 AM »
What do Canada and the Titanic have in common? They both looked good until they hit the ice.


Offline RyPrax

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« Reply #28 on: 23 February 2010, 02:22:17 PM »
Quote from: THE Leonardo LunchBoX;38477
What do Canada and the Titanic have in common? They both looked good until they hit the ice.



Touch


Think I'll have a wank over these tomorrow.

Offline Cannon

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« Reply #29 on: 24 February 2010, 12:52:26 AM »
Prax, my dear boy, me and you always butt heads over stuff like this. We have been doing it for years and we both have strong convictions in our belief system. Your as much pro-Canadian as I am pro-American and we both know that and of course we both want to be right.

So with that said I will end the debate here. I see your point of having less people and winning more medals makes you a good nation. But at the same time I don't agree! The USA is a decent sized nation and it's not the biggest but it's not like we go out and pluck kids out of school and have them train there entire lives for one sport like Russia, China, Korea and many other nations do. I will say that the USA does have a great ametuer system (AAU) for sports like wrestling, track & field, basketball and many other sports and that helps us. But the Government doesn't sink a lot of money into them... Hardly if any, lots of school sports programs are being cut now a days.

Also going back to a earlier post you said Americans just seem to be doing it for competion and not for the Nation. I do agree, it sucks that the USA has become a "ME" nation. Athletes are really bad at this and it does upset they don't do it for the Nation anymore, Patriotism was found after 9-11 but lost soon after and it should be the reason America competes in the Olympics and not for personal gain.

In closing, Prax, I still love you. I don't agree with your idea of medals and population, I do see your point and I don't think either of us is wrong in are theories. I'm sure we could rage this debate on for days but there is no need. Love ya, XOXOXOX

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