*OFFICIAL* Raw Discussion Thread: 16th January 2012

[Fluttershy]

Monday Night Raw - 16th January 2012

GM Rights the Referee's Questionable Call
Last week, WWE Champion, CM Punk, took on Jack Swagger, teammate of Punk's challenger for the WWE Title, Dolph Ziggler. If Punk won, Swagger and Vickie Guerrero would be banned from ringside at the Royal Rumble. CM Punk did manage to win after an elbow drop, but not without controversy as Swagger appeared to get his shoulder up. This week on Raw, Interim Raw General Manager, John Laurinaitis, has vowed to fix the bad call by the referee. Laurinaitis, who will be the special guest referee at the Royal Rumble, will likely use this to justify his involvement in the Royal Rumble WWE Championship match. What plans does the GM have for both CM Punk and his challenger, Dolph Ziggler?

Also On Raw
Last week on Raw, Chris Jericho was again met by a great reception from the fans, but once again he teased speaking but ultimately didn't. Will Jericho turn up for the third week in a row? And will he finally shed some light on his appearances? Also last week, Kane brought a message of hate to John Cena, Zack Ryder and Eve Torres. This week, expect to see an angry John Cena try and get retribution. Meanwhile, Zack Ryder is scheduled to be defending his United States Championship against Jack Swagger, but questions remain about whether he'll actually get to compete due to injuries caused by Kane. Also on Raw, celebrity blogger, Perez Hilton, will be a special ring announcer. What will happen in the further rivalry between R-Truth and the Miz? And will we get to see the man from Planet Funk, Brodus Clay return to action this week?

[Adampro123]

The whole Jericho thing just doesn't work for me. Last week I just fast forwarded through the whole thing and was seeing if he was gonna talk but he didn't. nothing to look forward to this week beings i don't think it will change until after the rumble.

Speaking of the rumble we really need more Rumble match build. We have had way too much Kane/Cena stuff lately and it seems the only guys who care about the rumble is Sheamus and Barret.

[Majin HoHo]

Yeah the Royal Rumble is being down played a little bit, seems to me a heel with it this year, but Cena/Kane storyline is doing great so far, for Kane promos of course...bring in the hate! Jericho stick is smart, have the fans be so pissed off to to the point, where they don't wanna see his face, and bam Punk comes out and tells Jericho to shut the hell up, that's what I see is going to happen.Ziggler vs Punk feud going ok, maybe a tag team match with Ryder and Punk vs Ziggler and Swagger.Should be good enough Raw to watch..

[RyPrax]

I appreciate what Jericho is trying to do, it's smart and different, but it's annoying on a weekly basis. It would be so much easier to just turn fucking heel already without putting people through a 5 minute annoying promo every week.

[Majin HoHo]

Why turn heel now, and nobody to face..Let it build..a little more and at the Royal Rumble turn him heel there.Maybe Jericho attacks Punk after he wins over Ziggler or even screws over Punk, not sure if they feud will be for the WWE Championship..then the greatness begins..

[narcolepsy]

The WWE should have learned this by now.....Chris Jericho is not a main event draw as a face.  It didn't work in 2007 and it's not working now.  The eventual plan of his return might be for Jericho to be a major heel, but currently he isn't and people are tuning out.  Jericho's face persona has only worked in the midcard, its the reason he has the most intercontinental championship reigns of all time but never a face heavyweight title reign.  People tune in to be entertained and Jericho standing in a ring literally doing nothing is not entertaining.

Using personal experience, when I attended Survivor Series 2006, the team of DX, The Hardys and CM Punk came out for a 5 on 5 match, played to the crowd just trying to get us to cheer (almost exactly like Jericho's 1/2/12 debut), buried the 5 heels and left after a 5 minute match.  Not only was this panned as a bad PPV at the time, but they killed the crowd by having us use all our energy 1 hour before the main event was to happen.  There needs to be some depth to the storyline and we haven't reached that yet.

[RyPrax]

I don't think this is a matter of WWE not knowing what they're doing, they know he works better as a heel. Problem is, no matter what, that first night he comes out he gets cheered. They have to find a way to cut that short and apparently they're solution is turning people off and making him look like a jackass. It's a smart long-term plan but it's boring in its application. Simple as that.

[chappers]

I think its a good plan if he does turn heel, rather then directly annoying the fans he's getting under their skin. I can understand it isn't to everyone's taste though and I agree with a point someone made a couple weeks ago, it works with a live audience but for people watching at home, it just doesn't connect with them as well, especially now the initial surprise of his return has gone out the window. I think its at a point as well where people are going to change the channel if he doesn't do anything this week. Either way I want him to be a heel, the WWE hasn't got a solidified main event heel on either brand.

On another note, I'd love it if Jericho came in with Ralphus this week.

[Adampro123]

That would be completely random and completely awesome!

At this rate Jericho is gonna have to come out 2 more times before the rumble if he does the same thing then i know im not watching. Maybe WWE jumped the gun a bit on his return and should have waited until tonight for his return or maybe a week before the rumble.

[J.D]

Not a bad show at all but as people said I wish they would build the rumble a bit more. I suppose we had that Truth/Sheamus/Barrett/Miz match but it didn't exactly build the Rumble as the huge spectacle it is.

It almost seems like they make less effort each year. Anyway I like Swagger becoming US champ. He was huge ages ago and people loved him when he won MITB and won the World Heavyweight Championship then he got buried and people started hating on him despite the fact he is great in the ring. This US title will hopefully give him the chance to reboot and turn him from that laughing stock back into one of the big guns of the new wave of wrestlers.
Ryder can try win the title back as well, winning it once seems like a reward to the fans but winning it again would show the WWE have faith in the guy and want to make him credible.

[Majin HoHo]

What did I think of the show, hmmm..First of all, seeing Foley...went nuts, as I would love to see Foley at the Royal Rumble maybe even in match at WM, maybe Wrestling Ziggler in a Hardcore Match kinda putting him over like he did with Edge? Oh my Latino Freebirds vs Air Boom, good match, as I wonder why aren't the Usos getting involved? Ryder vs Swagger, ok match not shocked Swagger won, as he needs it to be relevant especially how Ziggler is getting a WWE Title shot in Vickie's Stable.Hey way to greatness, join Vickie he has the right voice and you have great Wrestling ability=greatness.Divas tag team match meh, but my Bella twins need another color outfit to match their booties.Clay vs JTG, put him in the Ring with someone like Henry then I might want to go all in with him.I can see this character of his to really get over, World Champion over we will see.Over the top challenge, must of missed it somewhere, turn Raw back on seeing Truth smiling in the Ring.Somebody call my momma, Cena is turning heel, he is embracing the hate..haha! Maybe he loses at the RR, and attacks the winner..or something like that.The Main Event and segment again perfect Punk with his words, he is obviously reading my promos I have sent to him.Overall 8 out of 10

[Adampro123]

I loved Raw this week. I skipped the Divas but besides that i enjoyed everything.

The Foley/Ziggler stuff was amazing! Ziggler has really grown on the mic and has shown that he really isn't just there because of Vickie. I thoughht it was his best mic work to date and i thought he and Foley did a great job. Maybe I'm jumping the gun but i think they are setting a Wrestlemania match up for these 2 and i love that. Punk and Johnny Ace joining in was really good too. Johnny ace saying he would take it into consideration weather he will let Foley in the rumble and then just immediate saying "NO!" was great.

I Enjoyed Primo & Epico vs Air Boom. With Bourne out I don't know who Primo & Epico are gonna face now...i guess the Uso's? who i don't like myself. Maybe we finally get the KOW.

Ryder vs Swagger was pretty good. the issue here was Swagger has been made to look so weak that when Ryder Kicked out of Swaggers Finisher it was to no ones surprise and it was supposed to be a big deal especially with Ryders injury and the fact Swagger did it twice. But oh well It's good Swagger is the US Champ. he needs that belt and hopefully this will start to build him back up.... though John Cena beating the shit out of him doesn't help.

Skipped the Divas and Perez Hilton... Where has Beth been? She's the champ and i feel like i haven't seen her in over a month.

Cena Beating up Swagger i didn't really like. especially since Swagger just won the US title and now he looks really weak. Why not just let him take it out on Otunga or Jinder or Heath Slater?

On the brightside we didn't have the whole show revolving around Cena and Kane.
I Loved R-Truth on the mic. and his Slide show he showed Barret was awesome. Then i enjoyed the 4 Man Battle royal. it doesn't really build the rumble up too much but its better than it being built with guys like Santino and Jinder.

Brodus Clay over JTG was enoyably kind of... but Brodus just didn't do it for me this week really.  Maybe the shock and awe wore off or something. i don't know.

Loved the main event. Otunga should have never got in the match though because he hasn't seemed too improve in the ring at all. Glad they got Jericho to do something different this week. Maybe now people will start to buy that he's a heel and turn on him.

Then the aftermath With Johnny Ace saying that he IS gonna Screw Punk at the rumble and hitting Foley was good. Johnny ace was just in such Rage mode and i loved it he's really grown on me and he's such a douche and its just kind of perfect. I'm thinking hm saying that will Set up Triple H to come back next week or maybe even Vince or Steph to Add Foley as an additional Ref to the match so Johnny Ace doesn't Screw Punk over.. Punk will win somehow and Ziggler will feel Foley Screwed him thus etting up Foley vs Ziggler for Mania and Foley putting him Over like he did Edge and Randy Orton before.

Great Raw.

[Rhymin' Greiman]

I already gave a friend a mini review on Facebook so I'll just copy what I said there.

"LOVED seeing Foley there but he looked so much slower in the ring than he use to (understandably). No way I could see him getting a final farewell title run of any sort unless it's a tag title or something. It looked like he was struggling just to get to his feet after the main event. I personally want to see a match between Johnny Ace & Foley for the RAW GM job.

Eve & Ryder click pretty well together and I think they could do a lot of good for each others career with this storyline they got going.

That side of Cena needs to return if he plans on turning heel, he'd make a great bully to the midcard guys. I like how they're giving Kane credit for this show of aggression when it was clearly Laurenitis that fueled it this time.

Loving the mixed reactions toward Bryan, it's almost giving him that "Is he a tweener or a heel" feel because he's still trying to appeal to the crowd as the person in the right and Big Show in the wrong.

(Talking about the main event) I was texting my friend during the match and pretty much called what would happen but I also was hoping they would lay down some seeds for the Punk vs Jericho feud that has been hinted and rumored for months.

I'm sure next week Punk will continue to get in his face and try to get under his skin while Johnny just claims last week was a one time thing and he apologizes for looking so unprofessional. Laying the groundwork for the before mentioned Foley vs Ace match (if they plan on taking that route)."

Then I later added:

"In reality Vince would see this happening with his appointed interim GM and see that it's not good for business or the fans. He's bound to step in eventually... unless Laurenitis knows something we don't."

I rather enjoyed this Raw to be honest, but as said there wasn't much build up to the Rumble itself.  Almost forgot it was the next PPV....

[chappers]

The WWE should have learned this by now.....Chris Jericho is not a main event draw as a face.  It didn't work in 2007 and it's not working now.

Whilst I'll agree that Jericho's face return in 2007 was a flop, I think the problem wasn't completely Jericho's fault, I think the whole PG era just didn't work in general for face wrestlers. Since 2007 up until about 6 months ago when CM Punk won the championship, being a face, let alone a face winning the WWE Championship was practically impossible. It has literally just been juggled between John Cena and Triple H. I know that Jeff Hardy had a brief stint, Batista had a two day reign and Orton had a face run a couple years ago with the WWE Championship, but aside from those reigns the WWE Championship has basically been Triple H/John Cena vs heel opponent. I think that's a pretty telling tale in itself, I mean you have the bosses son in law who has fan familiarity from the attitude era, but also known to politic his way backstage to get his own way, and the guy who pretty much set the rules for that era. The PG era was impossible to be a face champion imo, no one ever looked comfortable as a face and the guys had to work with a corny script that looked more so awkward then enjoyable to work with. Too many lame jokes and a lot of the guys suffered because there was hardly any differentiation between anyone other then Cena, in fact, every face was a pretty generic run of the mill "I have morals therefore I'm good." Unless you are Cena, the WWE isn't fit for toddlers imo.

I know the WWE is still somewhat in the PG era of wrestling, but ever since CM Punk has cut that promo the show has changed slightly. It has moved to the next level of badassness, 12a. Its given the writers and wrestlers a chance to loosen up their characters and adapt to something more comfortable. CM Punk, Zack Ryder, R-Truth and Daniel Bryan have got over with the crowd easier because they now have more room to play with to adopt a character they are comfortable with. I guess my point is this, we are in a slightly different era and I think given the chance, Jericho could get over as a face. The reaction he got last night was really hot, whilst he is more then likely going to be heel, the crowd want the Y2J they remember from the attitude era, and I think he could have a better chance of emulating the face type quips of that Y2J character this year, then in 2007.

As for last night, amazing RAW imo.

Start of the show was good with Foley coming out, but Ziggler completely stole the spotlight from Foley. I agree with Adam, easily Zigglers best promo work to date, he managed to show charisma but also gave it some clarity in terms of being a threat. I loved seeing John Laurinaitis come out, easily one of the best things in wrestling at the moment. Vicky laughing in Foleys face was funny as well lol.

Tag match which followed was thoroughly enjoyable, a shame that Bourne is an idiot and has potentially ruined a good tag team feud.

The only bad part of the episode was the match between Ryder and Swagger. I'm glad Swagger won, but I feel he looked weak using three gutwrench powerbombs on an already injured Ryder. I can understand that they wanted Ryder to look strong, but I think they went the wrong way about it. In many ways I don't like the way they have booked Ryder in general since pushing him, he isn't as charismatic on the mic, and I can sense a possible Cena like push where he'll be groomed to be the top face for the WWE. Aside from the weak ending, glad Swagger won, and I agree with Rhymin Greiman that Eve and Ryder look good together.

I saw the start of Perez Hilton coming out and laughed at the boos he got lol, couldn't care about the match that followed so skipped it, but the post match promo was equal to hornswoggle lameness.

I tuned out on the Cena Swagger match. I don't think I mind it so much because Cena is bigger then Swagger, but I don't want Swagger to be constantly screwed over and made to look weak, the guy deserves his run with a belt, he's put over plenty of other people and has remained entertaining imo, plus he's always good in the ring.

Barrett on the mic was good despite the crowd having zero reaction, wasn't into Truth's promo so much as it seemed pretty lame. Following match I couldn't care about but it was there to build the Rumble and I think one of those four guys has a solid chance of winning.

Don't mind Brodus Clay's moment on the show, although I wasn't into it as much as last week.

The main event was awesome, not necessarily a great match, but enjoyable for seeing Jericho and then Foley running down (even if Foley looked out of shape in the ring). I loved Jericho's antics and play on the crowd, especially when he was going up the ramp lol. The promo following this match was phenomenal, loved everything CM Punk was saying and I completely digged Johnny Ace's response and reaction afterwards on Foley, awesome stuff right there. Hyped for the Ziggler Punk match at the Royal Rumble and I don't actually know which way its going to go at the moment. Brilliant build, I just hope next week doesn't fizzle it, and Triple H doesn't get his nose involved. However, dare I say it, RAW has been consistent for a while now and I have some faith that they could deliver next week.

[Rhymin' Greiman]

So how soon until Ziggler breaks free of Vickie?  And would he end up unintentionally turning face in the process?